Further information with respect to the operations of the Winnipeg Electric railway must be obtained before application for a reduction in fares is made to the public utility board, the special committee dealing with the matter decided at its first meeting of the year at city hall Tuesday afternoon.

Ald. H. C. Morrison was re-elected chairman.

Before the next meeting, J. W. Sanger, acting manager and hydro's chief engineer will obtain figures comparing the Winnipeg Electric system with transportation systems of other Canadian cities on the following points:

1. schedules of fares;
2. the amount of taxes paid on the transportation system;
3. mileage covered by street cars and buses;
4. the number of passengers carried;
5. passenger revenue, and
6. information on contracts respecting the upkeep of payments.

Figures for 1941, produced by Mr. Sanger at Tuesday's meeting, showed the average passenger revenue (including children's tickets, zone fares, etc.) of both Winnipeg and Toronto to be 6.9 cents. In that year, the Winnipeg Electric carried 41,246,410 passengers and revenue stood at $3,532,210. Toronto carried 200,419,215 passengers and revenue was $13,878,508.

Average passenger rates were given for other cities for the same year as follows:

• Hamilton, 6.6 cents
• British Columbia (including Vancouver and other cities and towns in which the B.C. Electric operates), 6.4
• Nova Scotia Light and Power, 6.4
• Fort William (Thunder Bay), 6.1
• Montreal, 6.1
• Ottawa, 6.1
• Saskatoon, 6.1
• Calgary, 6.0
• Hull Electric, 5.8
• Quebec Railway Light and Power, 5.6
• New Brunswick Power company, 5.4
• Regina municipal, 5.9
• Edmonton Radial Railway, 4.9
• Township of York, 4.9
• Town of Weston, 4.9

"What percentage of revenue does these various systems pay in taxes?" asked Ald. Jacob Penner.

A lot of assumptions would have to be made in calculating these figures, though W. B. Brown, assistant city treasurer. He pointed out that many of the companies were in several businesses, and that transportation was only one of these.

One of the troubles in Winnipeg was that is was a two-store city, and the company was trying to take all street cars past these two stores, thought Ald. E. A. Brotman. The city was not helping matters much by talking about creating a new hydro site on the avenue, he said.

"I hope you remember that when the question of a new civic centre arises," said Ald. R. A. Sara. He stated that there was talk of establishing such centre in the vicinity of Grace church, within a short distance of Portage and Main.

"If this is done, it'll make traffic impossible within a few years." he declared.

"Do we have to satisfy ourselves that we have a prima facie case before going to the public utility board?" asked Ald. E. A. Brotman.

"That depends on whom the onus falls, and on how frequently the onus shifts," replied Ald. Morrison. "However, we would want to be reasonably well supplied with an argument in which we had faith before making any application."

"If the public utility board is acting on the part of the public, its duty is to draw out all possible information from everyone, and make a decision without putting an onus on anyone," thought Ald. Brotman.

These questions will be more fully answered at the next meeting, to assemble at the call of the chairman, when R. W. Wydeman, city solicitor, will attend.